Curse

Evilsod · Jul 13, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

In my opinion, a barrager deals a lot better damage than an ele, and is harder to shutdown too.

Faintheartedness
Shadow Of Fear
Wail of Doom
Spirit Shackles }
Empathy } overkill
Spiteful Spirit }
Reckless Haste
Blind
Blurred Vision
Ineptitude
Clumsiness

The list goes on.

We're not talking about the idiots who bring Barrage to Alliance Battles when you can practically guarantee you won't be hitting more than 2 targets. In general PvE using henchman Barrage/interrupter works perfectly. It covers up for the damage the henchman are too bad to do and goes to work on the group of enemies that surround Sister Ta(nk)i.

That of course and to get through many smaller groups you can watch tv at the same time and press 1 and c alot.

Its the best skill to use with Judges Insight too.

winkgood · Jul 13, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

I don't have a problem with barrage itself and I find it a useful elite for quite a few missions. The thing that bothers me most about it is the bad labled its received by people running "B/P" in almost every situation. Try asking people why they use two skill slots to bring a bet when there is no way they can effectively put points in beast mastery, marksmanship, and expertise and still have a decent damage output. The response you'll no doubtedly get is "stfu noob." Probably from some kid who heard or read on guildwiki about a barrage/pet build being effective in tombs and they assume that it works in every situation. It honestly bothers me every time I see someone spam "B/P lfg". Another problem with barrage is that it has officially become the noob ranger skill since it doesn't require any skill to spam "1". Without a doubt, there are good rangers out there who effectively use barrage builds. Its probably only a 1 in 5 chance that you'll get one of those in your pug though.

Ristaron · Jul 13, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

I don't have a problem with barrage itself and I find it a useful elite for quite a few missions. The thing that bothers me most about it is the bad labled its received by people running "B/P" in almost every situation. Try asking people why they use two skill slots to bring a bet when there is no way they can effectively put points in beast mastery, marksmanship, and expertise and still have a decent damage output. The response you'll no doubtedly get is "stfu noob." Probably from some kid who heard or read on guildwiki about a barrage/pet build being effective in tombs and they assume that it works in every situation. It honestly bothers me every time I see someone spam "B/P lfg". Another problem with barrage is that it has officially become the noob ranger skill since it doesn't require any skill to spam "1". Without a doubt, there are good rangers out there who effectively use barrage builds. Its probably only a 1 in 5 chance that you'll get one of those in your pug though.

Spamming 1 might be simple, but it's not playing a ranger efficiently.
Even with an Ithas Bow, which has the same refire rate as a shortbow (I believe they have the same stats... otherwise I have been misled), barrage recharges before you're ready to shoot again. Simply hitting 1 over and over again will interrupt your character's motion and lower the DPS. It's better to let him shoot the non-barrage shot then trigger for barrage. Keep it timed like that and you'll out-damage all the B/P n00bs who bring a vampiric bow with no backup into AvA.

The only skill that makes a build is the player skill.

XvArchonvX · Jul 13, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

The reason I believe that there are so many "B/P noobs" out there is because for most people that are looking for a group to do a mission they haven't done before, a barrage build can generally be a safe bet and there's nothing wrong with that. However once you learn about where you will be going, it is easy to see that there are much better builds for certain situations.

Oh, and just for the record, breaking animation doesn't lessen your dps, especially if you are shooting against groups.

Amy Awien · Jul 13, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Spirit Shackles }

I hate that

SnipiousMax · Jul 13, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

<snip>

Breaking animation lowering DPS was a belief held by many (including me) until recently. We talked about it in this thread here. It turns out that without a speed buff, Short/Flat bows deal the most damage despite breaking animation. So you could get a metronome to punch the key for you and you'd be no worse off.

Why_Me · Jul 13, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard
In my opinion, a barrager deals a lot better damage than an ele, and is harder to shutdown too.

Only under the right circumstances. Barrage doesnt deal a lot of damage, it just can be complimented with orders, enchants, etc. that operate on a per hit basis. There aren't many things that compliment spells this way, so barraging is far superior to SSing/Nuking in a group that is designed around barrage. In a balanced group, you're much better off with the ele or other damage dealer.

Maria The Princess · Jul 13, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

barrage is a safe choise for any mission when you are not sure what to expect or dont wanna "work too hard" to finish it

Ristaron · Jul 13, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Oh, and just for the record, breaking animation doesn't lessen your dps, especially if you are shooting against groups.

I wasn't talking about groups. Against a single target over an extended duration it does. Sorry you got confused.

XvArchonvX · Jul 13, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Breaking animation lowering DPS was a belief held by many (including me) until recently. We talked about it in this thread here. It turns out that without a speed buff, Short/Flat bows deal the most damage despite breaking animation. So you could get a metronome to punch the key for you and you'd be no worse off.

I've been looking for that thread! ty ^_^

xnightmythx · Jul 13, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Barrage is great great skill for spreading other damage types while doing damage. For example, Judges Insight spreads holy damage. Since Barrage cancels preps, you can use Conjure Fire, Ice, ect. and spread elemental damage up to 6 targets. Not bad.

Now if it would only spread poison. :P

Former Ruling · Jul 13, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

In PvE Barrage is one of the only great choices for any area (theres no area someone would call you a noob for bringing it).

Heres your other choices:
M.Wager - Sucks
OathShot - Spirit Spammers in HA or active trappers...both are not pve
P.Stance - Choking gas...again...not pve.
CripShot - all but useless in pve
Punishing Shot - one of the debatable good pve ones.
Greater - Sucks
Incendiary Arrows - Sucks (doesnt last long enough to be effective)
Melandru - Bleeding sucks, only SOME areas run enchantments
Resilience - no thank you
Poison Arrow - minor degen, no +dmg, in pve? no thank you
Lunge - BM? You serious
One - BM? You serious
Lacerate - sucks
Archer's Signet - Would be good, if EXPERTISE didn't exist..
Glass Arrows - A Worse M.Arrows...
Trapper - Trappers in pve are for certain areas, and then most of the time dont get attacekd while setting them
Broad Head Arrow - Don't really need dazed in pve except maybe a boss..and it costs alot.
M.Shot - Good +dmg on a decent recharge, but the energy is totally useless most places.
Eq. - Sucks
Famine - Sucks

------------------

Basically, what OTHER elites can a ranger in pve bring? I bolded the only two you won't be TOTALLY laughed at for bringing. M.Shot is ok +dmg on an ok recharge, its an opinion thing. Punishing Shot is your only other choice if you don't want to be kicked from multiple groups - and then most people just spam it like a normal +dmg attack, so the faact it interupts is totally wasted and they might as well brought M.Shot.

Wolydarg · Jul 13, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

What's wrong with BM?

Epinephrine · Jul 13, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

OathShot - Spirit Spammers in HA or active trappers...both are not pve
P.Stance - Choking gas...again...not pve.
Lunge - BM? You serious
Broad Head Arrow - Don't really need dazed in pve except maybe a boss..and it costs alot.

Oath Shot is good in the right build anywhere.

Practiced Stance/Choking Gas is very powerful in PvE - enemy casters cluster, this suppresses. I've creamed through tough areas with CG/PS. Sure, it's not damage, but you don't NEED to be dealing damage.

Enraged Lunge kicks butt. If you don't believe it, try Jenosavel's (or another) Enraged Lunge build. +80 damage every 5 seconds = good skill.

Broad Head, debatable - unconditional daze is powerful anti-caster mojo, works well in some missions.

As for others, some are situationally useful. Don't write proclaiming skills useless, you can't support the argument. Yes, Barrage is a good skill, but there are many good skills.

frickett · Jul 13, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Ever since I got barrage it doesnt leave my skillbar unless I go into PVP. I like using it with a zealous bow, and live vicariously. I have to spread points into 3 attributes, But I like it a lot.

Maria The Princess · Jul 13, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

In PvE Barrage is one of the only great choices for any area (theres no area someone would call you a noob for bringing it).

Heres your other choices:

M.Wager - Sucks

OathShot - Spirit Spammers in HA or active trappers...both are not pve------Graet for a few farming builds in PVE

P.Stance - Choking gas...again...not pve.

CripShot - all but useless in pve

Punishing Shot - one of the debatable good pve ones.

Greater - Sucks ------make all damage fire damage and wear +15 vs fire attaks? or just drop a whinter along? good skill for PVE group support in certain areas

Incendiary Arrows - Sucks (doesnt last long enough to be effective

Melandru - Bleeding sucks, only SOME areas run enchantments-----------1 ranger runs Poison arrow, the other makes beeding

Resilience - no thank you

Poison Arrow - minor degen, no +dmg, in pve? no thank you----------are u serious??? i love this 1

Lunge - BM? You serious-------i kill wariors in AB with my pet

One - BM? You serious

Lacerate - sucks

Archer's Signet - Would be good, if EXPERTISE didn't exist.. or if you are runing a Concusion shot/interruptr build with no punishing shot

Glass Arrows - A Worse M.Arrows...

Trapper - Trappers in pve are for certain areas, and then most of the time dont get attacekd while setting them

Broad Head Arrow - Don't really need dazed in pve except maybe a boss..and it costs alot.

M.Shot - Good +dmg on a decent recharge, but the energy is totally useless most places.
Eq. - Sucks

Famine - Sucks

well u see, a rangers job is not only to do damage ith the bow. in PVE a ranger is more as a support figure then a damage dealer, unless its a B/P group or PVP spikers, which is only 2 of possible 100000000 builds...

Nathardia · Jul 13, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

It depends on the area mainly. Barrage certainly is very useful in a lot of Cantha missions and quests, where you face lots of packed and densed enemy groups. I prefer running interrupt, skirmish and degen builds myself, but these builds simply aren't as effective against large, packed groups.

Evilsod · Jul 14, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Broad Head, debatable - unconditional daze is powerful anti-caster mojo, works well in some missions.

Yeah sure in the land of henchman.
The Shiro'ken Elementalist boss in Raisu Palace. Defeated by BHA and attack spam? Or Shelter and Shatter/Drain/Remove in any form Enchantments. What you saved, your elite slot and 2 more classes that are likely to be there using those 2 skills.

If your in the land of henchman and obviously can't fine tune there builds to kill bosses with ease then its powerful. In any normal group there are better skills. The only possible exceptions been that frigging Ele L-Surge boss on the way to Gyala Hatchery where an unconditional interrupt is the end of it and the Ride the Lightning boss.

Beyond an aid for skillcapping this skill is useless.

Munanko Roha · Jul 14, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

[QUOTE=Former Ruling]In PvE Barrage is one of the only great choices for any area (theres no area someone would call you a noob for bringing it).

Heres your other choices:
OathShot - Spirit Spammers in HA or active trappers...both are not pve
P.Stance - Choking gas...again...not pve.
Punishing Shot - one of the debatable good pve ones.
Melandru - Bleeding sucks, only SOME areas run enchantments
Resilience - no thank you
Lunge - BM? You serious
M.Shot - Good +dmg on a decent recharge, but the energy is totally useless most places.

[QUOTE]

Active trapping is not pve? Oath shot is good, and even Marksman Wager to rebuild mana.

Practiced + Choking is better in pve than in pvp 'cause casters tend to pack together.

Punishing is great, here I agree with you.

Long time bleeding is good, it can be alternated with Apply Poison for a nice degen build.

Resilience is nice for a defensive build...or to get more mana to set traps in a hex-heavy area.

BM, quite serious, a pet can deal huge amount of damage in short time.

Melandru's is quite good but nothing extraordinary in most areas.

You forgot Quick Shot...

Bloodied Blade · Jul 16, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

What's with all the bashing of BHA? I run this into missions and just own bosses with BHA and RtW, nothing else. Just BHA the caster and auto-attack until it dies b/c it won't be able to do anything with all the interruption.